I have a silly habit of getting into debates on RPGnet's forums which often rile me up because I find that there are a number of people on there who seem to not be able to get out of their own headspace.
Essentially this guy stepped up and said that he was sick of people being negative about gamers, and he made a very good case of how you shouldn't let negative experiences put you off your hobby. Then all these people started stepping up and telling him to F-off!
Now he did write in a manner that some people may have found inflammatory, so I stepped up said "hang on, this is what the guy is saying." Then he stepped up and said "yep, thanks for putting it that way."
Then all the people who were angry at him tried to tell me that wasn't what he was saying at all and that he had an agenda.
*sigh*
I couldn't just say "well I'm trained in argumentation analysis" because saying that kind of thing is arguing to authority - which is a faulty form of argument. So I had to take the honest route of presenting the logic behind it all. Unfortunately, none of these people wanted to accept the logic - spending their time making strawman arguments.
See, the problem is that a lot of the unhappy posters were regulars on the Forge. Now the Forge is an indie game forum that started off being about gaming theory and developed into a forum for indie game developers. The problem is that the founder, Ron Edwards, is a very outspoken person who essentially stated that if you didn't use roleplaying games to tell stories well - then you were living in the dark ages.
I find this amusing, because Ron's discussions on narrative are WAY off base on most occasions. Not to mention a number of his other theories. He has a habit of creating buzz words, something that I've seen in philosophy, and it is usually used as an attempt to look like you've made a new discovery. This is why I have no interest in Forge theory - it is full of people who take the position that they are at the forefront of game design. The thing is, they aren't.
But all is not lost - there are cool designers on Forge and there are cool people who come up with some very nifty ideas. OVA, Dogs in the Vineyard - these kind of games exist because of the Forge.
The problem is that there are people whose outspoken, poorly considered comments have stirred up a hornet's nest of resentment towards the Forge. But rather than try to find a middle ground to work out differences, these people then aggressively defend the Forge in a knee-jerk reaction that tends to ignore what is being said.
And this was the case here. A guy stepped up and was honest about what he thought, tried to deliver a positive message, and the Forgites who responded degenerated into name-calling and accusing him of having an anti-forge agenda.
It was very disappointing.
The fact that many forgites tend to miss is that the language they use is exclusive and insulting to many normal players.
Yes, games evolve - but indie games aren't the pinnacle of that evolution. They are the bits of design that come to deadends - but the systems they develop get subsumed into the mainstream to develop new games.
For example, Weapons of the Gods is fast moving from being an indie game to third level mainstream and it uses a much more advanced version of Kickers in the form of Loresheets.
Kickers being a Forge term for character backgrounds that act as jump starts for a campaign.
Which isn't to say that indie games are deadwood - they are still good games, but they are never going to be at the forefront of design. They will always be the weaker beta versions of the systems that do become the forefront of game design...
I, for one, am tired of hearing people from the Forge talking like they are somehow the true roleplaying fans. They are simply a subset of the community who have their particular interest.
The problem has been that Ron Edwards closed the theory forum on Forge and now all the people who used to happily debate there have started hanging out on the other roleplaying forums spouting their theory to people who simply don't give a crap.
Ironically, this has made the Forge a better place to hang because most of the people who remained are all the designers talking about practical game design.
What it has caused though on my regular hangout though is raise the hostility. Because most people on RPGnet have historically disagreed with forgites because RPGnet has always been more interested in practical applications of games. They don't care for theory because they have been constantly told that they are wrong.
So I fear that this negativity is going to keep increasing because a large number of people from the Forge who have moved over to RPGnet refuse to actually discuss. They actually feel that their theories are correct to the point that if you disagree you are just wrong. Yet their reasoning relies on running around in circles and arguing against other people rather than actually providing any proof to support their own theories.
It's the same as the old error of thinking I used to see in media studies. See, the problem with analysis is that you can see whatever you want, because it is like joining the dots. The trick to good analysis is combining analysis with research - something the Forge tends to avoid doing.
When you are analysing game theory, you need to also research the intents of gamers, you need to get solid facts on what designers are thinking when they design their games. If you make an assumption you have to expressly state that you are not drawing on evidence and that you could very well be wrong.
*sigh*
Obviously, I'm a bit miffed over this because it frustrates me. I like discussing new ideas for game design, but the level of intellectual wankery that is occuring is upsetting. Worst still, the problem with arguments is that it becomes more and more easier to get caught up into the wanking and forget the core of the debate.
In the meantime, I'm currently waiting to hear back from all the businesses I have applied for jobs with - I even applied to work for Vagabonds when they move down here. :) Yet to hear back from any of these people.
Love and Huggles
Conan
Currently Reading: Break Today
Currently Running: Fireborn: Rememberance
Currently Listenting to: Funky Dory - Rachel Stevens
Mood: Actually pretty optimistic :)
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